Talk:School of General Studies

Decision to grant degrees

Presumably the university administration was between a rock and a hard place with the GI Bill. If they wanted to tap into revenue from the GI Bill, which they undoubtedly did, they needed to either allow returning GIs into CC or create separate college for them. Since it really was a separate college then, I'd think that it probably wasn't seen entirely as a redundancy. More like, I think it's grown into one. Feinstein 14:25, 11 March 2007 (PDT)

I was fuzzy on the details and planned to add more stuff later- GS received the right to grant the A.B., in addition to the B.S. in 1967, basically allowing it to grant the same credentials as the College, over the objection of the "almost unanimous opposition from the [Columbia] College faculty." This is well after the GI Bill years, when the University enrollment topped out at a historic high of over 30,000. Absentminded 14:39, 11 March 2007 (PDT)

I need to get a reference copy of Stand, Columbia. Feinstein 14:47, 11 March 2007 (PDT)

It's as close to a gospel as there is when it comes to matters Columbia related ;) Absentminded 20:49, 11 March 2007 (PDT)

Comparison of Core Requirements

Please fact check the table of requirements, if you are so inclined. Feinstein 21:07, 11 March 2007 (PDT)

Is it true that Frontiers can be used to fulfill the GS science requirement? The bulletin isn't entirely clear, but I was always under the impression that, if completed, it counts as one course toward the required three. Also, should that chart be included on the CC page too? Perhaps a "core curriculum" page charting the requirements of the three undergrduate schools would be sufficient. Adolph Lewisohn 03:25, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

I think the wording is very confusing, but it seems to me that it covers everything. I think this table belongs on the GS page, since there is so much confusion about the curricular differences between the schools. Feinstein 06:28, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

Since the wiki's gotten larger, I really think a page charting the requirements of the three schools would be more appropriate. Does anyone have any objections? Adolph Lewisohn 16:52, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Aren't the SEAS requirements pretty different? Feinstein 17:02, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

SEAS has a streamlined liberal arts core curriculum here. Adolph Lewisohn 17:06, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Are you just talking about the required courses? The elective requirement is way too complicated for a table. Feinstein 17:11, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

The comparable required courses, but I'll give it a crack when I have a bit more time. Also, do you think it's worth specifying that two semesters of Literature Humanities must be completed for full credit of the lit requirement? In GS, you're allowed to take either semester of LitHum (space permitting in the spring) for one lit credit and then another lit course if you so choose. Adolph Lewisohn 14:51, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

University Studies

Don't GS students also have to complete a P/F course called University Studies? Reaganaut 17:47, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

If it is a requirement, it doesn't apply to all students, for example, I never took it. I also can't find any reference to it, other than a no-credit Seminar in the directory of classes. So it exists, but I'm not sure what it is for. Feinstein 18:01, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

I believe it's required for "at risk" stuadents (my term, not theirs), assuming you've been out of school for awhile, or didn't come in with a 4.0 or whatnot. Adolph Lewisohn 22:39, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

Thanks. So then, it isn't a general requirement. Feinstein 23:55, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

"stuadents"... that's an interesting term! Admin 15:01, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

The term is slowly replacing students worldwide! Adolph Lewisohn 16:51, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Admissions Criteria

GS makes much less information than other schools. It's hardly justifiable based on the number of students. Feinstein 14:49, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Could you explain what you mean by this statement? Also, the use of "notoriously tight-lipped" suggests bias; at the very least, some sort of reference should be cited, since admissions information is available at the OPIR page and the Princeton Review website, among other places. Hacker 15:08, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Several things:

• SAT/ACT Score information on admitted students is not reported. It's standard to report the median and interquartile range for this.
• Demographics on the admitted class
• Prior education level/program of the admitted class

Feinstein 16:02, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Actually, there is a fairly detailed profile of the 2006 entering class available at http://www.gs.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/newspages.dll/pages?sitename=COLAD&record=449&htmlfile=gsnews2.htm (or see the News section of the GS website). You're correct that the SAT/ACT information is not reported; however, due to the nature of the student body, some GS students undoubtedly took the SAT before it was recentered, some probably took it recently, after being out of high school for a number of years, and of course as the article mentions, some students take the GSAE, so a score report, while in some cases useful, wouldn't give as accurate a picture as a score report for a more traditional student body, whose students took basically the same test at roughly the same point in their lives. Hacker 12:38, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

CC-GS Backdoor

• I'd like to flesh this out. Here's what it amounts to. GS undergraduates are granted access to the exact same education as CC undergrads (instruction in the liberal arts and sciences by Columbia's Faculty of Arts and Science), are given the exact same credentials (a BA from the trustees of Columbia university), but are admitted through a completely different and barely transparent process (as stated above.) So on the one hand, GS students are entitled to feel entirely the equal of their CC peers. On the other, CC students are entirely justified in feeling upset at GS's status- it's essentially dilution of what they were told was a restricted access commodity for which they fought through stiff competition to get access to- Columbia BA's. Nowhere does Columbia explain in its undergraduate recruitment literature that in reality there are an addition 300 students in the same program who didn't have to fend against 17000 other candidates to claim one of a 1000 seats. The confusion and outrage at this "revelation" that most CC students have a hard time grasping could easily be avoided if the University made the GS admissions process far more transparent (which may require making the requirements more stringent to avoid embarrassment and and even greater outrage- though this might result in a decline in admits, enrollments, and tuition dollars). As it stands General Studies IS ostensibly a backdoor to a Columbia BA. The charge can neither by proved nor disproved in the current situation, which only lends weight to the suspicion that it is. In general Columbia needs to re-think how its undergrads are organized. Of course Barnard doesn't help either... Absentminded 23:26, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

I agree. That's actually what I was trying to do in this article. My belief is that CU owes it to both GS and CC students to be more transparent about this information. GS and CC students shouldn't have to feel like their degree is somehow less valuable due to a backdoor existing. For example, how hard would it be to post the SAT/ACT median and interquartile range? Feinstein 23:51, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Columbia College is not just for people directly out of high school

I took a year out before starting at CC. Admin 01:47, 28 March 2007 (EDT)